My club is considering implementing a wing runner checklist. The wing runner would perform this mental checklist at some point before they give the Begin Takeoff signal.

"CATP"

Canopy....CLOSED AND LOCKED (to the best of their judgement)
Airbrakes....CLOSED AND LOCKED (to the best of their judgement)
Taildolly.....REMOVED
Pattern.....CLEAR

A FEW QUESTIONS....
1. I heard about this at the 2012 SSA convention in Reno. Does anybody know which club has implemented the checklist?

2. Have any of you implemented this or a similar wingrunner checklist?

3. Pros & Cons?

Thanks,
Jamie Shore

Many pilots of single seaters will start the take-off run with open spoilers to increase aileron effectiveness and some pilots will deploy them to activate the wheel brake to prevent the glider overrunning the tow rope on taking up slack.

A clear pattern is overly conservative and in most cases it is best to get the tow- plane and glider off the runway to give landing ships more options. I usually hold a take-off only when a glider is on short final and there may be a potential conflict.

Good judgement is better than a one-rule-fits-all.

But tail dollies - definitely!

Mike

"CARDS"

This one was taught to me for wing runners to be part of the safety process:

C- canopy (closed and latched)
A- airbrakes (as briefed)
R- rudder lock (removed)
D- dollies (removed)
S- scan (in front of glider, up the rope, in front of tow plane)

Turns out it also works for Final Items in the cockpit.

Raul Boerner
LS6b

On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:51:55 AM UTC-7, Jamie Shore wrote:
> My club is considering implementing a wing runner checklist. The wing runner would perform this mental checklist at some point before they give the Begin Takeoff signal.
>
>
>
> "CATP"
>
>
>
> Canopy....CLOSED AND LOCKED (to the best of their judgement)
>
> Airbrakes....CLOSED AND LOCKED (to the best of their judgement)
>
> Taildolly.....REMOVED
>
> Pattern.....CLEAR
>
>
>
> A FEW QUESTIONS....
>
> 1. I heard about this at the 2012 SSA convention in Reno. Does anybody know which club has implemented the checklist?
>
>
>
> 2. Have any of you implemented this or a similar wingrunner checklist?
>
>
>
> 3. Pros & Cons?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jamie Shore

You could make this required of new members, or present at your annual safety meeting.

http://www.soaringsafety.org/school/wingrunner/toc.htm

It's good for people to know what things are important. If you've been following RAS for a while, you'll know that a pilot nearly took a launch with the horizontal cover in place.

Frank Whiteley

On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 5:51:55 AM UTC-6, Jamie Shore wrote:
> My club is considering implementing a wing runner checklist. The wing runner would perform this mental checklist at some point before they give the Begin Takeoff signal.
>
>
>
> "CATP"
>
>
>
> Canopy....CLOSED AND LOCKED (to the best of their judgement)
>
> Airbrakes....CLOSED AND LOCKED (to the best of their judgement)
>
> Taildolly.....REMOVED
>
> Pattern.....CLEAR
>
>
>
> A FEW QUESTIONS....
>
> 1. I heard about this at the 2012 SSA convention in Reno. Does anybody know which club has implemented the checklist?
>
>
>
> 2. Have any of you implemented this or a similar wingrunner checklist?
>
>
>
> 3. Pros & Cons?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jamie Shore

As one who takes off with spoilers open -- spoilers either closed and locked, or all the way open. The trouble sign is spoilers cracked, but not all open. On fiberglass gliders (not blaniks) the spoilers will not stay open by themselves, so if they are open you know the pilot's hand is on the spoiler lever and it's intentional.

A checklist is a good idea. As others mentioned, the pattern need not be clear, but looking to see who is in the pattern where they are and helping to decide whether the tow can proceed, or needs to wait for the landing glider is important.

What's nice about this one is you proceed in a logical direction from front to back.

John cochrane

John, that's not always true. My LS8 spoilers will stay open by themselves, even without me in the cockpit. I agree with the rest of what you say.

-John, Q3

On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 10:18:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> As one who takes off with spoilers open -- spoilers either closed and locked, or all the way open. The trouble sign is spoilers cracked, but not all open. On fiberglass gliders (not blaniks) the spoilers will not stay open by themselves, so if they are open you know the pilot's hand is on the spoiler lever and it's intentional.
>
> A checklist is a good idea. As others mentioned, the pattern need not be clear, but looking to see who is in the pattern where they are and helping to decide whether the tow can proceed, or needs to wait for the landing glider is important.
>
> What's nice about this one is you proceed in a logical direction from front to back.
>
> John cochrane

I thought all this was the pilot's responsibility. I don't want someone blaming the wing runner if I take off with my canopy unlatched or tail dolly on and something happens. No harm in wingrunner checking these things but it is not their primary responsibility.

On 3/5/2013 8:47 AM, Clay wrote:
> I thought all this was the pilot's responsibility. I don't want someone
> blaming the wing runner if I take off with my canopy unlatched or tail
> dolly on and something happens. No harm in wingrunner checking these
> things but it is not their primary responsibility.
>

I know it's still winter in the northern hemisphere, and, that we're
discussing a perhaps fine point, but "I'm pretty much in Clay's camp" insofar
as primary (key word) responsibilities go...with the exception of the pattern.

Because Joe Glider Pilot doesn't fully control all that goes on between
pushout/pilot-installation in the cockpit/pilot-readiness, "by definition"
s/he isn't in the best position to "have up-to-date knowledge" of what's going
on in the pattern behind the glider.

When I run wings, I "naturally" check everything I can (on tug/rope/glider) to
the best of my ability, but I've long considered it MY primary responsibility
to "clear the pattern" prior to giving the thumbs up to the glider pilot (the
signal at our field it's OK for JGP to signal the wingrunner that JGP is ready
to raise the wingtip to level & launch).

As Joe Glider Pilot, my hope is (& I do try to be aware of this aspect of the
wingrunner's actions) my wingrunner has "the pattern aspect" adequately sussed
out. Responsibility for "everything else" glider-related associated with the
launch is mine.

A properly handled preparation for a wing-run glider launch is a dance of
beauty, with much happening "not in obvious sight"...

Bob W.

On Tue, 05 Mar 2013 07:34:11 -0800, John Carlyle wrote:

> John, that's not always true. My LS8 spoilers will stay open by
> themselves, even without me in the cockpit. I agree with the rest of
> what you say.
>

Its not limited to just single seaters either: the spoilers will stay
open on a parked Puchacz.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

of course the buck stops with the pilot but the wingrunner, towpilot and any knowledgable bystanders are all part of the safety net. an american cheese model of safety does not work, we have swiss cheese. case in point, Sean Fidler (F2) who does like to drive us all crazy in the winter, managed to save a couple pilots lives at Uvalde as they nearly took off with the cover on their horizontal stabilizer. the wing runner didn't notice, the two presumably experienced pilots didn't notice, and their presumably well trained crew missed it. sometimes you need a lot of layers of swiss chees before all the holes were filled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuTBQIb721g

;834453']of course the buck stops with the pilot but the wingrunner, towpilot and any knowledgable bystanders are all part of the safety net. an american cheese model of safety does not work, we have swiss cheese. case in point, Sean Fidler (F2) who does like to drive us all crazy in the winter, managed to save a couple pilots lives at Uvalde as they nearly took off with the cover on their horizontal stabilizer. the wing runner didn't notice, the two presumably experienced pilots didn't notice, and their presumably well trained crew missed it. sometimes you need a lot of layers of swiss chees before all the holes were filled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuTBQIb721g

Agree,

But even more so, most of us operate from clubs, and we want the club to remain strong and in operation, and part of that is ensuring the club is a professional, safe and dependable operation. This helps with insurance costs directly and costs of club aircraft or facilities, but also helps with perception of the operations at the club, perceptions or feelings people have about the culture of the club, and lastly it's important to the sport itself to entice new piltos, keep the FAA at bay, and to ensure someone else has our six.

This includes wing runners going over the major things that can cause an emergency in one of the phases of flight where soaring pilots have them the most: Take-offs. Canopies and spoilers locked, dollies and covers removed, pattern is deconflicted for takeoffs and landings.

While no one doubts the PIC is ultimately responsible for this, having the wing runner check these things is not an onerous task, and I as Duty officer say it out loud and ask my ADO's to do the same, as a last safety and sanity check. Our club is even starting to consider having the duty crew ask private ships is they accomplished a critical assembly and/or positive control check as a last chance reminder as well. It's not intrusive, and it's not out of bounds--it's just a help which takes no time and could save an incident or accident.

I hope no one is against prevention.

Cheers
Squeak

But if you know someone else is going to run through a checklist, doesn't that make it slightly less likely you will run through yours? What if the wingrunner interrupts you while you're running thru your own checklist? Hey, I'm not against prevention and am not gonna fall on my sword over this, but I just wonder if we're not engineering a subtle shift in psychology here.. I could be totally wrong.

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 12:59:48 -0800, Clay wrote:

> But if you know someone else is going to run through a checklist,
> doesn't that make it slightly less likely you will run through yours?
> What if the wingrunner interrupts you while you're running thru your own
> checklist? Hey, I'm not against prevention and am not gonna fall on my
> sword over this, but I just wonder if we're not engineering a subtle
> shift in psychology here. I could be totally wrong.

We encourage our launch marshals and their assistants to ask "Brakes
locked?" if the pilot didn't say "Brakes locked immediately asking for
"Cable on". IMO, if you're going to use such a procedure, thats the place
to do so, NOT earlier when the pilot is still running through his
checklist, thinking about eventualities, etc.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

After taking the thoughtful comments into account from this forum, members of our club and gliding safety experts, we have created the following concept that we plan to test at our club:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1toydzkQV7z12QFY2clT4b1Swoax4UjTXP9a9jBgwlIc/edit#slide=id.gb128aed1_00

The dialogue between the glider pilot and the wingrunner is 12 words (if spoilers are not deployed during the early takeoff roll).

In response to some of the criticisms posted in this forum:

"Clear Pattern" does not mean there are not aircraft in the pattern. Those words are used for the sake of simplicity. It really means the pattern is clear enough for the launch. Any suggestions on an alternate phrase (short & sweet) to relay that meaning are welcome.

We do require the SSF wingrunner course for all new members.

Most of the CATP items are the pilot's primary responsibility that SHOULD have already been accomplished. This wingrunner checklist is a backup that utilizes another resource to help to catch the killer items. It is silly to think that we will blame the wingrunner for an accident. On the contrary, it is foolish to not have a backup when it is so simple to do. CRM and SPRM (Crew Resource Management and Single Pilot Resource Management) relies on incorporating help from all available resources. The FAA requires it, it increases safety and is easy to do in many situations like this one.

There is no shift in responsibility here. It is expected that the glider pilot will complete their checklist before CATP occurs. See link above for more details on timing.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Jamie Shore
scoh.org

;834497']But if you know someone else is going to run through a checklist, doesn't that make it slightly less likely you will run through yours? What if the wingrunner interrupts you while you're running thru your own checklist? Hey, I'm not against prevention and am not gonna fall on my sword over this, but I just wonder if we're not engineering a subtle shift in psychology here.. I could be totally wrong.

I don't and I do not see that from most club members.

Overall, it's a matter of timing and not interupting Pilots in their routines. As Pilots stage their aircraft is when they are asked about Critical assembly and Positive control checks. When pilots are ready, and hooked up, as I walk to the wing and get ready to lift it, I look over their aircraft and the pattern. At Thumbs Up, I look and say loud enough for the pilot to hear: "Dolly's removed, Canopy and Spoilers locked, Pattern clear." At which point I signal to take up slack. Adds maybe 5 second to the process...

On Tuesday, 5 March 2013 11:51:55 UTC, Jamie Shore wrote:
> My club is considering implementing a wing runner checklist. The wing runner would perform this mental checklist at some point before they give the Begin Takeoff signal.
>
>
>
> "CATP"
>
>
>
> Canopy....CLOSED AND LOCKED (to the best of their judgement)
>
> Airbrakes....CLOSED AND LOCKED (to the best of their judgement)
>
> Taildolly.....REMOVED
>
> Pattern.....CLEAR
>
>
>
> A FEW QUESTIONS....
>
> 1. I heard about this at the 2012 SSA convention in Reno. Does anybody know which club has implemented the checklist?
>
>
>
> 2. Have any of you implemented this or a similar wingrunner checklist?
>
>
>
> 3. Pros & Cons?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jamie Shore

Why would you do this after attaching the rope/cable rather than before? In the UK it is normal practise for the wingrunner to ask 'Brakes closed and locked?' before attaching. The All Clear obviously comes later.

I see the value in reviewing items after rope hook up. But...

In the summer in our area it is normal to be above 100 F and very high humidity and the conditions are unbearable under the canopy and at rest. Sweat pouring into your eyes becomes a risk that may not exist in other less hot/humid parts of the world.

I'm coming in late on this one but on the subject of beginning the takeoff roll with dive brakes extended, maybe it's worth repeating some old advice. At least on Standard Class gliders (i.e., no flap handle), the easy way to reassure wing runners (and tow pilots) that the pilot hasn't simply forgotten to close/lock the brakes is to cycle them in and out repeatedly as the slack comes out of the rope. Yeah, it's a bit of a hassle but as the rope tightens you can hold them out to actuate the wheel brake if that's desired.

By now, everyone including the ops director, wing runner, tow pilot, spectators, the pilots behind you, and birds flying overhead will be aware that you're doing it intentionally and not forgetfully. And if the wing runner looks puzzled, I just cycle them one more time after the thumbs up signal.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.